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2 Oct, 2012

London Underground - Various - Deep Flow: The Deep House Selection Vol 3 (File, MP3)

Glen was playing in a band whose name I cannot remember, It was a sort of free form spontaneous jazz group, I think [ maybe the Hydrogen Jukebox?

I had just dropped out so to speak, a concept which would sound alien today. I was into having a good time. My flat was raided by the police but rather than arrest me for something they just said we will be back in 30 minutes and if I was you I would not be here, so me and my brother ended up 30 minutes later walking down the road to somewhere or nowhere.

We asked in a bar if anyone knew of anywhere to stay, and we were sent to Steve Pank's flat, who kindly put us up for about a week. That is how I met Steve Pank who I have known for forty something years. At the time if it was happening anywhere it was in Portobello Road, Steve had a magazine called "Albion" which I did some drawings for and later on I helped him run a club in a church hall, for which I did the posters and handouts and any other menial tasks.

This club never advertised who was playing because most of the people who came to jam did not tell their managers or record companies, even Steve did not know sometimes if anybody was coming to play or not. Some of the musicians and acts were very well known, and people just turned up to see whatever happened. The council eventually closed us down for making to much noise, or that was the reason given. One of the bands who played regulary was the Third Ear Band who Steve introduced me to them".

Can you tell me which was the real connections of TEB with the Druids? I was interested in druidism so I joined a group, Steve Pank was also interested so he joined also. TEB music like a lot of freeform jazz at the time was about being in the present tense, opening up the door to another state of being.

Some freeform jazz branched out into various kinds of indian or oriental music and created fusion music. Some of this music had spiritual connotations and meditation was also becoming popular. The TEB was a fusion between freeform jazz, indian music, meditation and folk music played on classical instruments.

It was probably the first band of its kind but it was still about getting into the present tense or another state of being. The Druid Order is about the same thing in another context, linking up with another state of being or going beyond time and space searching for reality.

So I guess although some of the connections are physical the real connection is abstract". What do you think about TEB experience? Some people asks me if TEB music was devoted to the black magic What can you tell about it? TEB has nothing to do with black magic.

If black magic is superstition then no they were not. Black magic is just going against the light, every habit and resentment which we are stuck in is black magic, every desire to get revenge or hurt those whom we thought or did hurt us is black magic, war is black magic if it is based on an illusion and personal pride.

Primitive people need a devil to blame otherwise they would have to take responsibility for their own actions. The second problem is that everything costs more in Hawaii because it all has to be imported; the third problem is that nobody has any experience with elevated tracks, meaning that several contractors screwed up and had to be forced to rebuild things; the fourth problem is that the economy boomed at the wrong time.

There will be some people with experience in building elevated tracks, allowing for both better contractors and better oversight. Hawaii spent federal dollars building interstate highways with a higher per-mile cost and lower average speed than subway systems. I think Musk is proposing, maybe even building as we speak, a reaaaly long hypertube from Hawthorn-LA … Open before Xmas …. Sometimes the city center is beautiful or historically significant to the extent that nobody wants to spoil it with an elevated line.

City center is usually more constrained — narrower streets, taller buildings, higher land values making elevated wide turns cost-prohibitive. The turn radii on the Loop are comically low. Evidently, with a state that routinely overrules NIMBYs in very brutal ways, China converged on the same mix of subways and els, just with concrete rather than steel viaducts, with an underground : elevated cost ratio of about 2.

There are several other concrete rail viaducts in NYC. The High Line is steel. The exposed rivets give it away.

Very good comparative analysis, and why I come to this blog. In this context I was a bit disappointed by the book I mentioned in a recent comment on this site, The Transit Metropolis by Robert Cervero. There are cities—New York, London, Paris, Hong Kong, Moscow and Toronto, for example—that certainly qualify as great transit metropolises but that are not included in this book , either because their principal transit investments date from a much earlier period eg. London , or their experiences are viewed as either extreme eg.

As you know, I have been particularly frustrated by Australian cities and transit planners being hung up on the way the Brits do things. And this insularity really does seem an Anglosphere thing, with obviously Canada escaping the curse by its French heritage. Also, having a decade living in Paris and a decade not contiguous in the UK, I always found it weird the way most Brits and Londoners were under the delusion they did these transit things better than across the channel, when the lived experience was to the contrary an opinion of one born and bred in the Anglosphere!

Maybe, but it remains at least twice as expensive to use which is a major thing. All the big world cities have dense cores and less dense peripheries but only Paris had this extreme focus of the Metro serving only the centre. The newest line M14 has much wider station spacing.

Though I just checked on its predecessor, ie. My own position on the spacing issue is that I love the close spacing in intramuros Paris and always whinge about this when using the London Underground, or most other systems in the world. But I understand that it has consequences for both the city intramuros Paris and limits extension into the suburbs.

Thus, exclusively two-track irrespective of other transit design issues. Obviously the long narrow geography of Manhattan played a decisive role too. Re Els versus underground, one can understand a preference against the former but there is something a little irrational. Indeed there is something rather iconic about the M6 as it traverses the 15th and across the Bir-Hakeim bridge with the Eiffel Tower behind.

It also raises the issue of noise. Though the decision to convert a lot of lines to rubber-tired was more to do with increasing acceleration and deceleration, which was more important for Paris because of the short inter-station spacing.

In any case it was all too late to influence the American debate on Els versus underground I assume. My crap memory. But then, I hardly ever used it, even if going to Pigalle or nearby, one generally uses one of the radial lines. One is always aware when a train passes but perhaps it is not especially irksome… Perhaps your point about modern systems having equivalent acceleration is correct but I also recall that being challenged by someone especially for steeper grades.

At any rate, it was developed more than 70 years ago … however still kept for the driverless system used in Lille and then Paris-M14 and recently M1. The rubber-tired train fetish is documented to have been the actions of Michelin and French government support for Michelin. They exist so that Michelin can sell tires for them. This was imported into Montreal through the French-speaking connection. It was always obviously stupid, but Michelin was large and powerful at the time. Seriously that is the most ridiculous conspiracy theory I could have imagined.

And the system was exported to more than just French Quebec, including the Japanese even if in their usual habit, they re-engineered the precise system so they could manufacture it themselves. Do you think the Japanese were obviously stupid too? One thing that is true about Michelin is that the world tyre industry hated them for introducing steel radial ply tyres because it resulted in much longer lives for tyres. It caused a major restructuring of the industry.

Yeah, French cities removed their streetcars and replaced them with buses without anything like the GM conspiracy. They just figured buses were more modern. The light rail here is all new, like in the US but with higher ridership. Depending on how you count the one city that shut it down for two or three years to convert to light rail, France actually has two or three tram systems that never shut down. Miami is because the water table is essentially at ground level, making it extremely expensive to go underground for any purpose.

I am unsure if this is true in PR and Hawaii. One uniquely American form of transit you dont touch on is the downtown people-mover systems found in Miami, Jacksonville, and Detroit. Ive only been on the Miami one, but it is a great system, and I wish the concept had been more successful and replicated elsewhere. Right, thats why Im saying I wish it was more successful. What they need is the system to tie into parking garages outside the CBD, with the people-mover bringing you around a pedestrianized downtown.

My vague understanding is that the downtown people movers descend not from urban rapid transit systems but from the Disney Monorail, which is how they so frequently use monorail tech and at least in Detroit run in a one-way loop like at a theme park. Yes, like Miami, Hawaii also has the problem that going underground would all be below the water table and next tot he coast i. Looking at the cost of Crossrail, the actual tunnelling was fairly cheap, while the stations were very expensive.

Surely station costs will increase by less than double with four-track, while you need twice as many stations for two lines?

The station digs are bigger if there are more tracks. The express stations are twice as wide, and the local stations are almost twice as wide. I do have, however, an unimportant clarification:.

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9 thoughts on “London Underground - Various - Deep Flow: The Deep House Selection Vol 3 (File, MP3)”

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